Wednesday, May 06, 2009

After small car, now a low-cost home from Tatas

After the launch of the world's cheapest car ‑ the Nano, the Tata Group is embarking on yet another low-cost dream. Tata Housing, a subsidiary of Tata Sons, has launched its low-cost housing initiative, with homes costing anywhere between Rs 3.9 lakh to Rs 6.7 lakh. CNBC-TV18's Priyanka Ghosh reports.

Tata Housing, a subsidiary of Tata Sons, today launched the project that will have 1,200 apartments under the Shubh Griha brand. To be built on a 63-acre plot in Boisar — north of Mumbai — the price range for the apartments would be between Rs 3.9 lakh and Rs 6.7 lakh. The project, whose timeline is about two years, is expected to clock a turnover of about Rs 100 crore, the company said. It is also learnt that the township will also have higher-priced homes above the Rs 3.9–Rs 6.7 lakh bracket. These may be in the price bracket of Rs 10 lakh and Rs 15 lakh.
The Tata Housing group also plans to take its value-home product, Shubh Griha, to other cities like Delhi and Bangalore this year and the company is looking for land parcels on the periphery of these cities.
When asked how the company would be able to keep costs low, it said their designs were innovative and that it had ‘some trade secrets’. Also, the Tata Housing group does not entirely own the land that it is building the township on. Here’s the deal: the group has tied up with the land owner and will work on a revenue-sharing model.
The group has struck an alliance with the State Bank of India and the bookings for the first thousand apartments started on Saturday and closes in about two weeks. After that, there will be an allotment through a lottery system.


shailesh said...

There has been lot of discussion on price correction not happening or not visible in Mumbai. The reason most offer is Mumbai is unique, and due to high income, lack of affordable land etc... it won't go down. Some are even separating parts like Thane and Navi mumbai can go down, but Juhu and Bandra will not.

Well I have news. All Real Estate Bubble move outward, and all Bust move inward. That is when prices started rising, it starts from center or prime district and then move to outskirts. When it starts bursting, it comes the other way.

What you are seeing in India is Housing bubble has bursted in third and second tier cities. Its now moving toward 1st tier cities. Mumbai prime areas would be last fort to buckle down. Just go and lookup history on what happened from 1995 to 1999. The same pattern will be repeated.

In US, though bubble started bursting in late 2005, the prices of NYC did not start dropping until now. The price drops are just now beginning in NYC. It took almost 3 to 4 years. So expecting Mumbai prices will drop just after 1 year of burst, is unreasonable. If you want house in Mumbai, you have to wait till at least 2011 or 2012.

Anonymous said...

Please think....
The joy and happiness of Living in a certain place takes precedence over every consideration while choosing a place to settle in for life or a considerable part of it. This is my belief and is sure most of you share it. Each individual though may have his own definition which depends on – Family, Career, Extended family and Social avenues - in short a 360 view towards life. For first time buyers what should matter most is meeting these criteria to go ahead with a decision.

Having said that though in this case you can have emotion as the overriding factor, as heart easily scores over mind when we start talking of personal choices. To avoid this pitfall do a thorough assessment of your choice based on all the parameters of the VFM (Value for Money) criteria and then take the plunge.

Is this the right time (mean as of today). Well, those who don’t have an immediate need or who haven’t done the above exercise may wait but others shouldn’t and investors in RE should completely avoid now. Rather for those who are looking for a personal dwelling I think this is the best time, here’s the Why and How

Uncertainty, Fear, Gluttony and Wishful thinking drives any risk-driven investments. Economics used broadly as a term for everything else forms the background to this playing field of emotions. It is the fear of the UNKNOWN that leads to unimaginable bottoms. Once anything that is unknown comes to the fore and there is nothing significant left to unfold everyone and everything gets back to NORMAL. It looks like we are in that phase. This is truer about Equity markets than RE as it’s definitely more knitted to employment and GDP. But even then we are behind the unknown, irrespective of the means employed by the entire world, especially US. This will lead to excessive inflation etc, etc and all that crap but does it really matter to us so much in our decision to buy a house. We are not IMF economists here, leave that to the theorists. We are simple salary earning professionals or businessmen and all others who are looking to balance happiness and risk. We can keep talking about it as a past-time but execution is the key.

Once you have made up your mind and finalized on a property – apartment, plot, bungalow, anything you like and decided what YOU think is a fair price make an offer. Your own offer irrespective of what the counterparty’s expectations are and am sure you will be able to close the deal at your price or a 5 – 10 % premium (considering your quote will be much lower than current market rates). This is more applicable for cities like Bangalore, Chennai, NCR and Pune than to Mumbai in the current market. I think there is still a room for correction in Mumbai after which you can apply the same principles.

I would like to talk about the Chennai – Mumbai debate and some of my thoughts on Bangalore, Hyderabad, Pune in my next contribution.



shailesh said...

Brotin Banerjee, managing director, Tata Housing Development

shailesh said...

On Youtube,


Anonymous said...

Cool Head,

Thanks you are right.

I still maintain that areas which have seen three times the price vis viz 2000 will hardly seen major correction but areas which have multiplied more than three times will correct accordingly.

Kindly read my earlier post.

Eg: In 2000 Chembur Diamond garden was at 3500 and Dadar Shivaji park was 4500. During peak Chembur reached max 12k whereas Dadar shot up between 18 to 25k. Now you can expect dadar to come at more realistic level of 12 to 14k and Chembur between 9 and 10k.

Minumum 50% increase for Mumbai in three years.

Dont time, Dont time, Dont time.

Bindas Bhai

Vik said...

Which location do you commute to work ?
IS 7k for a 3 bed or 2 bed apt ? How many sq ft ? From what I remember from last year, the rate here was 13k last year. Thats almost a 45% cut. I feel sorry for the buyers who bought at at the peak.

Cool Head said...

Thankfully I do not commute, my workplace is near my residence.
What 7K are you talking about? I think you are referring to somebody else's post that asked opinion on 7K for Chembur.
I was talking about Bandra .
Bandra prices have really crashed and builders are offering for around 16K if you ask casually, hinting at further reductions if "approached" with cash in hand. However I wonder why should anyone buy there even at that price. It is too congested, the roads are narrow and filled with annoying and belligerent hawkers. The icing on the cake is a pig farm somewhere near Pali Mala road that gives off a lot of stink- scary wrt the Swine Flu

As far as Lodha's building in Malabar Hill area is concerned it seems ready but does not seem to have occupants-no doubt due to the steep fall from last years prices- I have heard about 45K psf figures for that, which is too high, even for that swanky area.

Anonymous said...

Fool’s guide to four types of green shootsHere’s a fool’s guide to four types of “green shoots,” all of which can be ignored by anyone trying to work out where the economy is going.

One: It’s no longer getting worse.

“The economy has continued to contract, though the pace of contraction appears to be somewhat slower,” the Federal Reserve’s Open Market Committee said in a statement last week in which it signalled that — yup, you guessed it — the emergence of all those “green shots” meant it didn’t have to do much more to stimulate the economy. So, to get this straight, the economy is still falling off a cliff, only not falling quite so fast as it was a few months ago. It is, however, still getting smaller, which means everyone is getting poorer. At the risk of spoiling everyone’s fun, there is a big difference between that and the economy actually starting to recover.

Two: We applied the medicine, so stop complaining.

“I am confident that the innovative policies being pursued by the Federal Reserve will facilitate and, indeed, expedite the recovery process,” said the Fed’s Fisher in the same speech in which he forecast the healthy emergence of those “green shoots.” It is pretty much the same message pumped out by central bankers around the world: We have cut interest rates, printed money and pumped up demand. We have a computer in the basement that says when you do all of those things, the economy will start to recover. There is just one snag: What if you have the wrong diagnosis and the wrong cure? Just applying the medicine doesn’t tell us anything, and certainly not that the patient is about to get up and start walking again.

Three: The stock market says so.

Indeed it does. The markets aren’t so much spotting “green shoots” as a whole flowerbed of roses and tulips. Europe’s Dow Jones Stoxx 600 Index has erased all its losses from the early part of the year and shows every sign of kick-starting a new bull market. It climbed 13 per cent in April, the biggest monthly gain since data for the index started in 1987. Most other major markets around the world have staged similar rallies.

“All the things are in place for the bear market to have ended,” Anthony Bolton, president of investments at Fidelity International, said in an interview.

Again, there’s a snag: The stock market doesn’t have any more of a clue about what will happen than the rest of us. It has predicted at least 12 of the last two recoveries, and nine of the last five recessions, to paraphrase economist Paul Samuelson. One consequence of the credit crunch is that we should stop believing the markets are much good at predicting anything. After all, they didn’t see the blow-up in the markets, and that was happening right under the noses of professional investors. There’s no point in imagining the same people can spot a recovery now.

Four: Business leaders are more optimistic.

Some of the most respected names in business are blooming with confidence. Those “green shoots” are “turning into daffodils,” Goldman Sachs Group Inc Chief Economist Jim O’Neill said in an interview last week, after raising his forecast for global growth next year.

Consumers want to “move on” from the economic decline, said Stuart Rose, chief executive officer of UK retailer Marks & Spencer Group Plc, as if the recession were just some tiresome psychological condition we could just snap out of.

Ignore them. Business leaders are perennially optimistic. It is part of their job. To get to the top of a big company you have to be constantly “breaking new ground,” “pushing the envelope” and “taking things to the next level.” The gloomy realists don’t make it to the board — even though, of course, they are often right.

shailesh said...

NDTVPROFIT Emmar MGF project

Anonymous said...

Tata can potentially change India's RE situation drastically for the better.

All that is needed is for one or two companies to come up with a low cost low margin business model and then unnaturally high RE prices will be history.

I always used to wonder at why India's RE is so high priced, then realised it suited Congress to keep it that way. The party seems to be made of RE gansters!

But Tata will not make an impact unless:

1. Govt frees up land use
2. Makes roads
3. Provides water and electricity
4. Taxes the Tatas less
5. Loses vested interest in keeping status quo in high RE (where political money is parked).

Wont happen, unless BJP comes to power.

Small (or no) chance of that.

I am willing to bet BB votes Congress - sounds the type somehow - am I right BB?

I am also willing to bet that in 5 years from now, giant RE companies will make giant affordable housing at REAL prices (like 1000Rs psf or less). New technology and mass production techniques will change RE business for ever. Cement companies may get involved in prefab construction on a mass scale.

This will set a cieling on RE prices. But supply will come in tier 2 or even brand new cities.

Location however will still command a premium. That will never go away.

Anonymous said...

sorry previous post was by me venkat

Anonymous said...

Location is key and anything below 3000 rs is sustainable. Boisar is beyond outskirts but then many folks don't mind to stay there if they get to own their own house. Life is tough in Mumbai
Location will always have premium

Kapil said...

I was being blame as broker since last 3-4 months but now it seems tone is changing. I have been telling this blog that market has turn around and bottom is behind. If you remember I also said we will see one more decent correction in May... That time is here, starting later this week/early next week WILL start next round of market correction. Market will continue to sell all the way until July. There will be rally in between but by July S&P 500 ( US) is going back to 750.. a decent 20-25% correction from here.

I cannot tell you what is my yardstick but take note and we can review in July.

July will your last opportunity to LOCK and LOAD.

Subel said...

Kapil Sir,

Please back up your predictions with data, give some real numbers on why something should happen and why markets will go down!!!

khaali pilli kuch bhi bolne se kya hota hai, there is no tax on verbal pollution, anybody can say anything!!!

Kapil said...


Four months back people thought I am wrong but those faces look stupid to me now. Stay ahead with the information I provided... If you do not like it ignore it..

I do not have time to debate on these things.

Anonymous said...

@Kapil 7:54 PM

Please continue your bakwaas..!!!

Anonymous said...

Buyers' agents get nothing if there is no sale, so they want their clients to buy no matter how bad the deal is, which is the exact opposite of the buyer's best interest. Agents take $100 billion each year in commissions from buyers. Agents claim the seller pays the commission, but always fail to mention that the seller gets that money from the buyer. Think about it: who brings the money to the table - the seller or the buyer? All money comes from buyers. No buyer, no money.

Anonymous said...


I agree with you say and i distinctly remember you had predicted this.

Thanks for this. Ignoring positive news and only looking at news what suits them and later asking you data is nothing new to this blog.

These guys over here will again miss the bus be it equity or property in Mumbai.

Let us wait and watch.

Minimum 50% increase for Mumbai in next three years.

Dont time, Dont time, Dont time.

Bindas Bhai

Anonymous said...

the bus is the khatara best . enjoy the ride

Anonymous said...

Only time will tell if it is Khatara or not

Anonymous said...

Bangalore Public Notice from BBMP-Buyers Beware: Subject DLF HomesJayaram

Anonymous said...

Bangalore Public Notice from BBMP-Buyers Beware: Subject DLF Homes J ayaram ::
that is awesome, bringing the builders lies by a public notice ! need more of these

Anonymous said...

Small towns hold big promise for India's housing boom

For two years, Ratnesh Gupta, a software engineer with IT major Birla Soft, has been trying to fulfil his dream of buying a house of his own, either in the national capital or in Chandigarh. But his budget of Rs.2.5 million (Rs.25 lakh) was making it beyond reach.

New Delhi, Delhi, India, 2009-05-07 13:45:10
Today's Top Headlines

For two years, Ratnesh Gupta, a software engineer with IT major Birla Soft, has been trying to fulfil his dream of buying a house of his own, either in the national capital or in Chandigarh. But his budget of Rs.2.5 million (Rs.25 lakh) was making it beyond reach.

Now, he has finally zeroed in on his dream house, though he has settled for Rudrapur, a small town in Uttarakhand. In the process, he has joined thousands of house hunters who are buying properties in smaller cities, fuelling a housing boom in them.

Rudrapur is among a host of towns like Almora, Bhiwadi, Neemrana, Haldwani, Meerut, Moradabad and Karnal that have started attracting new home buyers, bringing a lot of cheer to the realty industry that is otherwise facing one of its worst crises in decades.

'My budget was very small to buy a house in Delhi or even Chandigarh, my native place. Even a one bedroom apartment was not available in a decent colony. Now, I will own a decent house and also manage to save some money for other investments,' Gupta said.

'In Rudrapur, a two bedroom apartment is costing me Rs.14.6 lakh (Rs.1.46 million). It is within reach. And I feel it is a very good investment proposition for future as the city is opening up for development,' he told IANS.

'The main reason for realty development at these places is that metros and even many big cities have become overheated and oversaturated,' said Anuj Puri, chairman and country head of global realty consultancy Jones Lang LaSalle Meghraj.

'Property prices in larger cities have gone beyond the reach of the middle class. So people are looking at new destinations. Prices there are reasonable, where the pace of development is fast and it makes for good future investment,' Puri told IANS.

'Land at these smaller places is still available at reasonable rates. Industries are coming up. There is overall development. So real estate companies, so also investors, have very good future in these places.'

According to Jai Mawani, head of real estate with global auditing and consultancy major KPMG, smaller cities in India offer a huge potential, making them the most happening places for real estate development now and for the future.

'But there is no empirical basis yet to establish the actual market share of these towns in the overall realty sector as it is still unorganised,' Mawani said.

The Planning Commission, which estimates a shortage of 22.4 million dwelling units in the country, says some 80-90 million new units will need to be created over the next 10 years to adress the demand, a majority for middle and lower middle income groups.

Interestingly, rather than the big players, the smaller developers are the ones that are benefiting from the realty boom in smaller cities and towns, which have shown no sign of being affected by a slowdown that has otherwise gripped the country's realty industry.

'The slowdown, in fact, is helping us. The big developers are staying away from these cities. They are selling land to smaller players so that they can raise cash for bigger projects in large cities,' said Mahim Mittal, managing director, Shivkala Developers.

Take Rudrapur. The town has good connectivity, with Pant Nagar Airport just 11 km away. Delhi is 254 km away, the famous Jim Corbett tiger reserve is 95 km away and a drive of 60 km takes you to the popular hill station of Nainital.

Developers say that in the past two years, more than 100 plots in Rudrapur have been sold to employees by companies like Tata Motors, Bajaj, Escorts, Voltas, Britannia, HCL, Nestle, Parle, Dabur, Hewlett-Packard and Kores India.

'Nearly $2 billion investment has gone into the real estate business in Rudrapur,' said Mittal, adding this would go up once the overall realty market in the country stages a recovery.

The story is similar in towns like Meerut, Moradabad, Manesar, Bhiwadi and Neemrana. For them the unique selling proposition is the proximity to the national capital. Another attraction is they fall along the dedicated freight corridor project.

Anonymous said...

Bangalore Public Notice from BBMP-Buyers Beware: Subject DLF HomesJayaram

Fooling people is the order of the day. The cut offered by DLF to the politicians wasn't satisfactory and hence this notice.

Builders and bureaucrats are hand in glove.

Anonymous said...

Without any understanding some bulls are creating confusion in RE market & stock market.

How the recovery will happen?

First the loss making companies will look for cost cutting measures, like capacity reduction, employee layoff, operation consolidations [Free fall]. After these measures it will improve the company’s profitability which will improve the stock valuations [Bottoming down]. Now companies are running under capacity but in profit. To reach to the previous level of production, it will again expand the consolidated operations [Recovery]. Once it will reach to previous level of output capacity then real expansion will start [Boom phase] .

NOTE: In recovery phase the rise in unemployment can take down the economy again to bottom, which is called as double hump recession. This is another crucial point in recovery.

Most strong cause: As per the G-20 meeting 20 nations decided to print more money. If you will get abundant money with 0% interest rate what you will do?

Stock market shows sudden collapse in the prices because stock markets are highly liquid. Collapsing housing bubbles, on the other hand, are characterized by illiquidity, a sudden collapse in transactions & slow correction.

In the above recovery cycle, household will make money only in later stages when unemployment conditions are improved. As housing depends on household income, it will be the last in recovery cycle. Of course ROE is so bad; it is not attractive to investors. In illiquid market, who want to speculate?

“Recessions associated with financial crisis tend to be severe and recoveries from such recessions are typically slow. It takes almost 3 years to return to the pre-recession output level—which is twice the time it takes to recover from other recessions”.

So guys let it fall then only pick up, minimum 50% price cut is guarantee.


Anonymous said...

DLF Bangalore project runs into troubleSobia Khan
Friday, May 8, 2009 3:17 IST

Bangalore: DLF Ltd, has been accused by the Bangalore civic authorities for misleading potential customers with false claims.

The Bruhat Bangalore Mahanagar Palike (BBMP) has alleged that the developer did not take building clearance beyond the fourth floor for its upcoming Westend Heights at New Town project, but issued advertisements for sale of flats up to the 18th floor.

DLF Southern Homes Karnataka, the local arm of the group, refuted the allegations. In a statement on Thursday, it said construction will commence only after obtaining detailed plan approvals from the BBMP and other relevant authorities.

"DLF is a law abiding organisation and has always respected and adhered to all local laws, rules and regulations," it said adding, applications for all permissions are in process.

DLF argued that the firm has obtained due approvals from the Bangalore Development Authority (BDA) for the developmental plan through its subsidiary company, Annabel Builders & Developers for S+4 level.

However, BBMP said that DLF's claim of having received approval from BDA to build four floors is misleading as the property lies within BBMP jurisdiction and only it has the sole authority to grant approvals.

Anonymous said...

Layoffs at Satyam set to begin with BPO unit
K V Ramana
Friday, May 8, 2009 3:33 IST

Hyderabad: Tech Mahindra, after gaining control over the troubled IT major Satyam Computer Services, seems to be getting straight to business.

The company intends to downsize operations beginning with the business process outsourcing arm Satyam BPO (formerly called Nipuna).

Sources in the company saidthe layoffs will begin with the support department. "The billable staff is not going to be disturbed now. It is the support staff that is likely to exit," the source said.

Satyam BPO has over 3,000 associates and the ratio of billable staff and the support staff is about 35:1. "The target is to make it 80:1. This means a major shake-up in the BPO arm," the source said.

About 60% of the support staff face the axe.

Tech Mahindra has decided to use Satyam's existing marketing, HR and other support functionaries for the BPO too instead of having a separate set-up.

Sources among employees said that there are about 80 people in the HR department alone and about 60 of them are likely to go.

"Particularly the support functions in both Satyam BPO and Satyam are obscenely overstaffed. Any effort to resurrect Satyam would happen only by rationalising these functions," the source said.

The days of Tech Mahindra moving the spotlight to Satyam too, are not far, the source said. "Informally, there would be a target to save at least $200 million by way of cost cutting. This implies massive layoffs. It is a question of when now and not if," the source said.

Though the senior associates of Satyam felt that there is no immediate threat, particularly to the billable associates, the rationalisation (read layoffs) is imminent. "What we get to hear from the senior leaders in the company is that the layoffs would be in the excess of 10,000. We still don't

know if they are going to happen at a stroke or in a phased manner. It is a fact that the new management is keen on financial discipline and cutting the flab. For some mysterious reasons, the old dispensation has created a lot of buffer and there are several functions where the number of employees is in excess

Anonymous said...

Bindas Bhai (aka Agent of Builders on this forum)

You keep on saying that there will be 50% increase in Mumbai in 3 years.
Let us assume you are right.

50% increase in a property invested today means a CAGR of 14% per year.
So essentially this asset will give you a return of 14% in a year which is much lower than what stock market will give you. Stock market have been beaten down so much that an investment at 9500 Sensex will give you around 16% return.

So it still doesn't make any sense to invest in real estate as the returns are lower and second the asset is illiquid. In case of downturn I can exit from stock market and have my cash in a day, while property will be extremely difficult to dispose off.

Please g0 back to your table, discuss with the bosses and come with a better marketing stunt.

Radhika said...

As Anonymous at 9:18 said real estate isn't an investment. People like you need to read the chapter on real estate in Cash The Crash - Yogesh Chabria where he exposes your dirty tricks and scams.

Real estate will crash over 70% in Mumbai. Bandra, Khar, Andheri will be hit very badly wait and watch and don't buy. Full analysis is there for you to find out.

Anonymous said...

Anon 9:18,

I never said that investor will invest in real estate in that case it will be growing more then 50% in three years.

Mumbai has huge demand and that only will drive the growth you don’t need investor to give 50% growth in three years. I said and I repeat that if the stock market moves to 15k by Diwali, and with interest rates heading south we will see a lot of movement. This kind of movement for three years is good enough for the market to go up 50% in three years. Remember supply has been curtailed.

As of today a builder can easily sell 1BHK, just spoke to a builder while writing this post. He mentioned selling 1 BHK is very easy.

I totally agree with you that for investment it is better to put in equity at this stage.

Minimum 50% increase for Mumbai in three years.

Dont time, Dont time, Dont time.

Bindas Bhai

Anonymous said...

Bindas Bhai,

Three years means what? should we consider year 09 as year one or year zero. If it is year zero then ROI will be 10.5% CAGR. This kind of growth is very high for property.

Historically property has never given more then 6% returns. Dont waste your time at this forum. We know what we are communicating.

Anonymous said...

Guys in the Forum PLEASE NOTE what Bindas Bhai Says in his post at 11.04. "As of today a builder can easily sell 1BHK, just spoke to a builder while writing this post. He mentioned selling 1 BHK is very easy."

Well if you can call a buider whie writing a post it shows that definitely you are very closely related to some Builders and hence my doubts were right that Bindas Bhai is an Agent of some Builders. In fact you could be sitting in the same office. Come on Dude/ dudette reveal yourself, trust me it will be more fun in discussing with you then.

Now since in your post you have agreed that property/ real estate is not for investment, let me explain you a few things. Average family size in India is 5 people. 5 people can not stay in 1 BHK and so it remains a johpri for them even then.

The builder (Your Boss) whom you consulted before typing your previous post told you that he is easily selling 1 BHK is no more than a huge lie. Demand - supply arguement is again b*llSh*t. Tell me one thing. there is perennial demand for food.. right? Still a lot of people in India die of hunger why?? It is not beacuse of shortage of food it is because they cannot afford to buy it. AFFORDABILITY and not the demand-supply matters when it comes to basic needs of Roti Kapda aur Makaan.

Speculation backed by black money led Builder mafia to believe that people will purchase at such a price. You want to know the real price that people are willing to pay check the Analysis here Demand Price Gap in HousingAnd on top of that your argument of demand and supply fails to explain why 4.35 lakhs or 53% of the apartments are still unsold. Read this News . As per you there is demand for housing.. Right Bindaas Bhai ?? Why such a huge number of flats rotting in unkept.
And even the apartments that have been sold have no inhabitants since they were bought by NRIs who were fooled by builders.

Binaas Bhai (aka Agent of Builders) the real estate speculation is over. Gone are the days of land grabbers ( your bosses). TATAs are already behind your @$$.

Guys. Those who support my views . Respond with a reply.

Anonymous said...

Anon 11:59,

You are behaving like a child. Please read my earlier post. I have never denied that I have nothing to do with property. I work with an MNC and investing in property is my passion.

I am in regular touch with builders, brokers and also the buyers like you to understand the market. I also check with the bank guys about the movement on regular basis.

I feel that we need information and credible information to take any call.

You sound very vindictive instead pls. keep your mind open and gather information not only from news paper and blogs like this but also do some field work.

I am not saying that sales have revived but smaller flats the movement has started and is comparatively easier to sell. There is a still a long way to go for property market and all will depend on various factors how the stock market unfolds. new govt , interest rates and last but not the least employment.

The link you have provided is more then 6 weeks old and from that too from HT who are waiting to prove their point. If need be I can send you atleast five links which says that sales have picked up. Frankly no point in taking this debate forward like this.

We are not here to bash the bulls who are minority in this forum but understanding the market dynamics. If my advice does not suit you pls. ignore it. During my younger days guys with no guts used to all his cronies to support him and that’s exactly what you are doing.

Grow up dude!! :-)

Minimum 50% increase for Mumbai in three years.

Dont time, Dont time, Dont time.

Bindas Bhai

Anonymous said...

Bindaas Bhai,

well, I am not a buyer of property, I have what I needed. And at these rates I am not willing to invest. I neither favour the bulls nor the bears. Only ground realities backed by facts.

This is not the forum of bulls & bears. The kind of information that is shared on this blog saves a lot of guys from being duped by builders.

If you read the report correctly it comes from a real estate agency. As far as HT is concerned it earns huge revenues from real Estate advertising and because of the slump there revenues have gone down. As for sending the 5 links please send, as long as they are researched and backed by facts and not interviews of a builder coming out and saying that sales has increased.

Talking about field work, go out in places like Dwarka (Delhi) or Indirapuram (Ghaziabad). At night hardly you see one apartment with lights on. All sold out but no-one lives there. Speculation that was all. Do your field work properly Bindaas Bhai. Sitting in AC at a broker office or socializing with builders or a banker in a bar.

You do not seem quite old, neither from your usage of words and nor from your analysis of the market. You are far far away from ground relaities of this country. You work in MNC step out of your AC desk. I have spent 10 years in FMCG sales and another 3 years studying consumer purchasing behaviour.

You may say that I sound vindicative. Well I think that you are, as below all your post you write "Minimum 50% increase for Mumbai in three years. Dont time, Dont time, Dont time." As if you are an augur???

I guess that you have some high prices properties in your portfolio (perhaps on loan) and are now finding it difficult to dispose. Well Don't Time you say. I say its all about timing dude :-)

Anonymous said...

Dumbass Bhai,

Arnt you the same guy who was predicting prices to sky rocket last year??

Arnt you the same guy who said there wont be any price correction??

btw whats "Dont time" mean???

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:37

I never spoke about any market other then Mumbai so if you know about Mumbai pls. talk otherwise keep your trap shut. Sorry at times i have to use these words.

Here pls. read the following article from HT only, which is more recent. Check out today’s DNA Mumbai edition will give you further insight.

I don’t want to post any Times Group otherwise you will say Times is biased.

I can see frustration showing up. Jerks like you are looking at 2004 prices in Mumbai. Pls. go and have a walk with your elders they will brief the property prices during there days.

Just because guys like you have lost opportunity you expect the sky to fall.

This way home

Realistic prices boost flat bookings, show revival hopes

Wait and watch we will see the outcome.

Minimum 50% increase for Mumbai in three years.

Dont time, Dont time, Dont time.

Bindas Bhai

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:47

Pls give some identification, by posting three different post doesn’t make you three different person.

Pls. read what I have said in my earlier post about Mumbai. Good you have given me an opportunity, now let me refresh your memory.

For a short while I also thought that Mumbai will fall drastically and then accordingly I had posted. I remember people asking me whether I have turned a bear, but now I dont think the same. I feel the worst is over expect for IT and Mumbai has a balance of all industries and not totally dependent on IT like other cities (Bangalore, Hyd, Pune etc)

These are the following points I had mentioned in my earlier post.

1) In Mumbai commercial property will see major correction and not residential.

2) Properties which have multliped three times viz a vis 2000 will see only marginal correction and properties which have mutiplied more then three times will see correction accordingly.

3) Outskirts of Mumbai will fall

4) Builders will reduce the area of the house.

5) Interest rates will fall with inflation falling.

6) Most of the builders in Mumbai are in strong wicket and financially strong and hence selective drops are expected but overall the prices wont crash.

7) Supply will be curtalied by the builders

Pls read my earlier mail and then talk. People like you are misleading the market and not me.

The people in this blog can look back and read all my post.

Minimum 50% increase for Mumbai in three years.

Dont time, Dont time, Dont time.

Bindas Bhai

Anonymous said...

Dear Bindaas Bhai

I guess you are lost. Did you read the links before sending them.? :-)

Both the links that you have send, say that. Prices are falling. DLF case in the article mentions a fall of 30% fall in latest prices. Another article also mentions that prices are falling by 10-30%.

On your saying that people are frustrated on missed opportunity. haha.. I see people like vulture and all very happy in their rented houses. You seem more frustrated than everyone else in this forum.

On one hand you say that minimum 50% price will rise and then DLF is selling at 5000 Rs/ sq ft instead of earlier price of 7000 Rs/ sq ft. People please note what the last line of the article says. " A person who bought property more than 3-4 years ago may make a profit if he sells now." This clearly indicates that they expect prices to fall or stagnate.

Bindaas Bhai you contradict yourself. By the way is Anon 2:47 correct that you predicted skyrocketing prices?? In case yes, then dude you may be old but not old enough to argue with who you call bears :-). If you are old enough you must be having memories of real estate boom of 1994-96 and what happened after it busted.

Anonymous said...

The problem is that you feel a lot. Feelings something don't make that think to happen.
All 7 points are what YOU feel.

And how old, mature and smart you are can be judged from point (5). You say inflation is falling. Dude.. inflation in India is flawed as it is on WPI . CPI Index which is the primary index for calculation in all countries is not used in India. As per CPI inflation as calculated by int'nl standards was 10.5% in Jan an increasing. For that matter even WPI has started to increase. On April 25 WPI is at 0.7% versus 0.57% last week. Read Dude.. read. Saying Hello Namashkar in an MNC BPO is not enough.

Your Point (6) that Builders are on strong wicket can't be funnier. You have builder friends and brokers right?? ask them about Peninsula Land owner's story. To be honest most builders in Mumbai are directly investing Mafia money into RE.

You yourself post as "Anonymous" and expect others to give some identification.
Well .. I never used that name for you. And if I need to call you Dumb@$$, I need not make a seperate post. I will call you it in the same post if your argumnents are stupid.

Also tell me what kind of MNC allows you so much time that you can be so active on this forum? If you want the bull market to come back concentrate on your work and don't waste office time. Leave it to people like us who are on pension. :-)

Anonymous said...

Anon said:
Leave it to people like us who are on pension. :-)

Great I can’t win with you nor I want to.

The article i posted was to show you all guys that sales have started trickling in despite the fact that Mumbai has hardly corrected.

I am here not to talk about other market because i do not understand other areas.

Pls don’t read out of context to suit your convenience.

About: comparing 995/96 bust.

Good you have brought this point. I can tell you about the area I stay. 1BHK (Chembur Diamond garden area) was costing 35L and when it crashed it was 18L. Pls. compare your salaries during that time and tell me how was it possible for anyone to pay almost 30 times your annual income to buy 1 BHK and that is the time it crashed. In 96/97 after the crash it was 18L to 21L. Still it was almost 15 times your income.

Today same 1BHK is around 60L i.e. ten times your single income. Pls do your homework and dont speak about other area to me. I have no knowledge about other areas besides Mumbai. The reason the hype started was Inida has initiated liberalisation during those years and there was a strong rumor that once China takeover Hong Kong all the offices will move to Mumbai. I hope you can remember, sounds stupid today but that was the fact.

Anon said:

And how old, mature and smart you are can be judged from point (5). You say inflation is falling. Dude.. inflation in India is flawed as it is on WPI . CPI Index which is the primary index for calculation in all countries is not used in India. As per CPI inflation as calculated by int'nl standards was 10.5% in Jan an increasing. For that matter even WPI has started to increase. On April 25 WPI is at 0.7% versus 0.57% last week. Read Dude.. read. Saying Hello Namashkar in an MNC BPO is not enough.

You are right we all know but it the same RBI increases/decreases the repo, reverse repo, CRR or SLR based on these numbers which are released. I am sure most of the members will agree. Kindly do not mislead the people over here.

I know a lot of people through out their life stay on rented flat or company’s accommodation. Today i can understand how difficult is to buy a house after retirement.

This is the reason precisely I am requesting the forum to buy at least 1BHK in Mumbai and don’t time the market.

Anon said:
Your Point (6) that Builders are on strong wicket can't be funnier. You have builder friends and brokers right?? ask them about Peninsula Land owner's story. To be honest most builders in Mumbai are directly investing Mafia money into RE.

Boss when i am saying builders are on strong wicket i mean majority of them. There could be around 20% builders who are in thick shit. Slowly but surely banks have also started lending to them.

I may be wrong but most of the builders who have brought land at very high prices are not the traditional Mumbai builders like Hiranandani, Raheja, etc but guys outside Mumbai like Unitech, Inida Bulls, Kumar etc. These guys have brought for commercial property developmentand today we all know the status of commercial property.

Most of the builders of Mumbai are redeveloping societies. Here they don’t have to buy land barring few here and there and that is what holding Mumbai’s prices.

This is my reading i may be totally wrong but as i mentioned earlier only time will tell us.

Anon said:

Also tell me what kind of MNC allows you so much time that you can be so active on this forum? If you want the bull market to come back concentrate on your work and don't waste office time. Leave it to people like us who are on pension.

I think person of your age should go for a healthy discussion instead of getting personal.

Minimum 50% increase for Mumbai in next three years.

Dont time, Dont time, Dont time.

Bindas Bhai

Anonymous said...

Bindass Bhai - Slowly but surely banks have also started lending to them.This can’t get more funnier. The banks are worried about the ballooning NPA (Non performing assets) i.e. default on EMIs by techies and commercial real estates. Out of compulsion they have restructured the loans shelled out the listed Real Estate Companies (beggars to FIIs) because even if they confiscate the assets and sell, the banks will not be able to recover the dues. So it is hugely preposterous to claim that the banks have started lending to Real Estate Sectors when they are worried about the grim future.

The unholy nexus of Banks, Real Estate Companies and brokers are waiting for the gullible buyers to sucker in and bail them out. Please be cautious.

Cool Head said...

Comparing salaries during the 94 boom and now and linking it with the salaries now is a specious argument.
Just because something is affordable does not mean that you should pay that much for it. Therefore even if a 60L flat may seem "affordable" (due to salary increases over the years) the fact is that people have better uses for that money rather than putting it all into a flat. Plus, the uncertainty in the job market means that people are saving up for the day when the salary will goi BELOW their '94 salary level (i.e. come to zero if they get laid off).
But if you are not a salaried person and if you have 60L in hand, why buy a flat at Diamond Garden? If you want to earn money lend it to businesses, they will give more return than RE. If it is to be invested in RE buy a house in US. You can easily get one in good location for $300,000. It is allowed by Indian govt now and you can start earning by renting out the US property.

shayna said...

Peoperties in CHEMBUR demanded a premium on the back of additional FSI earned by the apt owners that builders like HIRANANDANI hope to exploit.

1BHK attracted 65L in Maitri Park under the HRN Regeneration project. HRN started work last nov only to put a halt now because he is unable to sell the excess FSI.

Consequently prices have deflated for these old apt resale.

Anonymous said...

1st Bindaas Bhai makes the case for Sales picking up in 1 BHK and in his next post almost requests that people should buy at least 1 BHK in Mumbai.

Retired old man is right . Bindaas Bhai seems to be agent of some Builder sitting on a pile of unsold flats.

Bindaas Bhai said that prices of 1BHK in 95/96 was 35 lakhs which is now 60 lakhs. This is meagre 4.21% return over the last 13 years.

Hey Bindaas Bhai.. you are a confused guy. You are not even finding a case over here.

Anonymous said...

Hi Bindaas Bhai
Hats off to .. as I can see eally prices are not falling drastically.
I am looking a place in chembur .. least dreaming of - a decent 2 and half BHK around 60-70 L - is there a possibality in future???
Spening 1 BHK on 60L seems insane to me...

Anyhow any perticular news abot raheja acropolice???and rahejas?? If they have any financial issues than further reduction can be expected..

And last any communication is possible? Least of annonymous ids?

Anonymous said...

2.5bhk is still costing 95L , lets waitn watch..

Anonymous said...

I am also looking in chembur, but still prices are high, acropolis is having more maintenence cost also. builder is not coming below 90l for 2.5bhk.
if u have any more news plese post.