Sunday, October 04, 2009

Home buyers unite!

This is a new Yahoo Group started to serve as a platform for people who want to buy their home but not be indebted to the bank for the rest of their life!!!

Email from Mr. Nitin Degaonkar attached:

Home Buyers Association of Pune (HBAP) shall work to serve and protect the interests of house buyers . Builders are very strongly organized and their association is a strong body which lobies well with Government Authorities. Unfortunately house buyers is such a scattered lot and so illinformed that one has to depend on information available in some news paper articles or the internet. HBAP can be helpful for the buyers to know first hand information about various aspects of buying house, builder' reputation, loan related matters. It can also work for ensuring that there is no artifically raised property prices with any possible cartelization.

Those who are interested may please join this movement. Link -
There are many people keen to buy houses and there are many beneifits of doing such things collectively. House buyers association can take up / address issuses / concerns of buyers and help people on a larger scale.
Nitin Degaonkar


Anonymous said...

Morons Builders OR Greedy Buyers?

Everyone is blaming builders for fourfold rise in prices but who is fueling the prices? Who is helping builders to hold the prices? Yes, the greedy buyers, who are ready to pay 100% down payment without checking legal approvals, without scrutinizing agreement. And once they will get screwed by builders they will reach media to get public support. We have enough examples in last 8 months, the DLF’s project -Gurgaon, Mayta’s Hills -Hyderabad, Wonder Futura-Pune. In my recent visit to a builder, found the same thing, an NRI from US paid 30% amount as booking amount whereas builder didn’t even have agreement papers not even pakka payment receipt. And sighting this example, the builder didn’t negotiate a penny & showed me couple of more such checks.
Since January, to squeeze more out of buyers, builder has changed the payment schedule, now buyers has to pay 50% amount till 3rd slab & remaining 40% amount once your booked flat slab is done.


Anonymous said...

You are right Vulture. There are quite a few morons out there who get taken in by total shitty characters like Sandaas Bhai and slimy type Brokers/builders..

Why blame the brokers/builders? For decades now, movies, newspapers, society has been cursing these brokers/builders for being the lowest slimeballs around. Yet our moron buyers go out there buy brokers/builders stories hook,line and sinker and then get into such a miserable state.

These moron buyers never bother for a minute to think about risks...egged on by the likes of so-called "Bindass"...meaning take wild risks without thinking of the consequences and then blaming the builders/brokers/newspapers. Asking others to join them and help them in getting justice...

Before jumping into the well, pause, might loose your life...blaming others later does not help. Asking for mercy and justice is not a nice place to be. Think of your family and where you can end up...

Anonymous said...

Buyers need to refrain and not to get tempted to buy. The prices have only to go down and hence buying is absurd for at least 3-4 years. The prices will be down by at least 60%.

Anonymous said...

Genuine demand still hasn’t returned to realty market
Neha Dewan & Anand Rawani NEW DELHI

SO IS the demand for homes getting real again? It seems to be a mixed bag so far. While developers are aggressively talking about a spurt in demand, industry experts and buyers attribute this ‘revival’ to the strong nexus between developers and intermediaries.
SundayET spoke to a cross section of developers, bankers, buyers and realty brokers to assess the ground situation. In fact, the demand in the residential segment for Q3 of this calendar year remained marginally higher than the previous quarter. However, leading developers said that the growth has been optimistic and some even claimed a 30% rise in demand in these three months.
Last month, India’s largest real estate developer DLF claimed to have sold 1,250 flats in two hours in the second phase of its Capital Greens project in Delhi. Rival Unitech too said that they had a sale of 3,500 apartments across cities between July and September. Similarly, BPTP sold nearly 2,100 apartments in the same quarter.
For Delhi-based realty firm Omaxe, Q3 got a sale of Rs 300 cr, up 50% from the previous quarter. And according to Niranjan Hiranandani, MD of Mumbai-based Hiranandani Developers, there has been an overall industry sale of 10,000 units in the Mumbai region in these three months.
These figures, no doubt, look impressive. But there is a catch. Industry experts and buyers say that this business is mainly the result of a strong developer-intermediary network. “To some extent it is artificial hype but it is not completely a false story. Around 35-40% of such stock goes to end users and 50-60% goes to brokers or investors who want to sell it off later,” says Pankaj Jain, executive director of Realistic Realtors, a North Indian real estate consulting firm.
Jain is not the only one echoing this view. Other reputed brokers in the industry also have a similar take. Rajesh Arora, vice chairman of Arora and Associates Realty, puts it this way, “It is not practical to sell 2,000 or 3,000 apartments within a few hours. They would have sold it to middlemen or agencies. The demand in the sector has remained the same as in the last quarter and though the prices in Mumbai have increased, in Delhi they are at the same level.”
Businessman and prospective buyer, Anil Dhawan, says that such claims by developers do not hold any meaning. “Financiers take up most of the stock. End users would possibly make up only 10% of the buyers in these cases.” Dhawan says that although the time is conducive to buy right now, he would mainly look at a ready to move in property over an under construction one to avoid delivery hassles.
Developers, however, are upbeat about the housing demand. DLF is basking in the glory of ‘good demand.’ “We have launched the second phase of Capital Greens project. We are selling one flat per pan card and buyers cannot sell the property within a year. So I am sure that end users are the buyers right now,” says Rajeev Talwar, group executive director, DLF.
The demand is ‘robust,’ says CMD of Omaxe, Rohtas Goel. “There has been a 30% increase in this quarter. We had a sale of Rs 300 cr in these months as against Rs 200 cr in the last quarter.”
Many also are of the view that the fear of increased prices later is propelling more number of buyers to come forward right now. That is leading to increased enquiries as well as conversions. “People think that is the best time to buy as prices may go up later. The price band of Rs 15-Rs 40 lakh is doing quite well. We will be launching more projects in the affordable segment. Our target is to launch 30 million square feet in residential space by the end of this Financial Year,” reveals a Unitech spokesperson.

Anonymous said...

Vashi Hunter Here
Looking at 2 to 3 BHK in sanpada and palm beach
Can arrange 47 lack white in 1 go ( No bank loan) but NO Black

Can pay 2% Commission to agents

Need all title clear flat,cidco tender plao built...already rejected Moraj Residency
No Ground floor NEED 1 parking ( 2 Preferred)
Sellers Dealers welcome..

Mail -

PS - The person who abused me and called Bindaas Bhai -can he please mail his co-ordinates to me? I am a real searcher and want to meet the person

AEveryone is Anonymous but want to meet him in p;erson and settle the score.

Anonymous said...

Vashi Hunter AKA Sandaas Bhai,

You are a doubt about it.

I do not have time to waste with crap like you.

Tried to send you a email at your address. There's no domain called
"gmal"!! Either you are a moron or you can't type english for nuts..

Sandaas bhai, you want to meet me in will have to come to NY from Vashi/Chembur. And believe me a lot of people here in US are equally eager to meet you in person :D

Anonymous said...

It is
can we meet at some comman place?

Anonymous said...

Sandaas Bhai,

An In-between place between Mumbai and NY would be Algeria or the Atlantic Ocean...

Let me know if you want to meet at either of those places.

Preeti said...

It's boom time again for home sales
Raghavendra Kamath / Mumbai October 6, 2009, 0:47 IST

Anonymous said...

No wonder why Banks are pushing for RE price cut.
“Some bankers have complained to the central bank that after making use of the relaxed rules, which permit banks not to classify loans to real estate firms as bad loans the moment they are restructured, builders continue to hold on to artificially inflated prices.”

Now it’s clear, why Indian Banks are not facing any losses & how the prudent lending practices prevented our Banking system.
Banks are worried that this ponzi scheme will not work, it may lead to bankruptcy & that’s why they started shouting against the bubble price.
Home Buyer<= Banks => RE

Who all are the beneficiaries of this bubble?
--Builders – Exorbitant profits
--Govt - high revenues.
--Banks – high interest+processing fees, on higher loan amount.
--Investors – Exorbitant returns.

Who is paying for all this?
-- Common man.[home buyer]

If you will not pay for this who will pay for this? Let them fight among themselves & decide. This is the benefit of patience; you don’t have to worry about market, transparency, scam or high EMI.

So guys let it fall then only pick up minimum 50% price cut is guarantee.


Anonymous said...

Why Banks are shouting for price cut?

This is how it works.
BBB = Bhai-Bhai Bank
BSC = Bhola Sing Company
200 apt project = Project A

Project A is valued at 100crore by BSC. To execute the project, BSC raised 30 Crore from PE, 20crore from own pocket & 50crore from BBB. When you will purchase an apt., BBB will lend you money & will get back the money from BSC. So BBB will have zero exposure with BSC. BBB is ready to lend long to home buyers as the risk is very low, by burning all earnings & himself, he will re-pay the loan. Also BBB is making exponential returns on home loan.

If you will not buy home, the project A is collateral with BBB. As home prices went down by 20-30% last year the collateral value felled down by same %. Now BBB should demand more collateral with BSC, but as per the instruction from govt., BBB rolled over the loan with same collateral value, it means you pretend that 10Rs is equal to 13Rs. To compensate for these liabilities, BBB is supposed to make adjustment for Bad loan a/c or write down the asset from balance sheet.
Now how long this ponzi scheme will run?
--What will happen if new govt. will not support this?
--Nationalized banks have govt. guaranty, what about private banks.

Yes, BBB is worried about this, that’s why they started shouting.

So guys let it fall then only pick up minimum 50% price cut is guarantee.


Anonymous said...

After restrictions on Foreign bank for overseas lending, now the private equity is giving another jolt to RE. Surprisingly PE accepted that valuations have dropped to almost 50% of the original valuation at which the deal was decided.
--Chanda Kochhar (ICICI) also admitted the exorbitant RE profit margin & expecting further 15-20% price correction.
--Mr Chidambaram is now talking about recession & tough time ahead in 09-10.

Oops ! Vulture is advocating minimum 50% price cut since one year.

Last week, Mr. Bernanke & Krugman has raised the concern about deflation, we can not rule out the possibility of deflation then depression.
--Salaries has slashed down by 25%.
--IT contracts has been re-negotiated with 25% price cut.
--Oil is 400% down to it’s peak price.
--Steel prices have corrected to the tune of 20% worldwide, it can fall by 15% immediately provided govt. abolish the import duty.
-- Almost all companies has laid off or in process of lay off.
Though CPI is showing inflation(~5%) but asset classes are showing the signs of deflation.

What’s ahead?
Though Obama’s stimulus package looks to be promising, it will take a year to show the sign of relief. For Banking crisis, still there is no solution, means the crisis is getting elongated. Even with most optimistic view, the recovery will start in 1-2 years, complete recovery is not in short term.

So guys let it fall then only pick up, minimum 50% price cut is guarantee.


Anonymous said...

The question is not whether the correction will come or not at this time. Right now the question is:
--How much correction. Is it correction or just getting back to the old prices of 1997-98.
--How long it might take. It may take upto 2 years as masses are holding onto there newfound paper wealth.

Today Obama in US lashed out at the whole housing industry, banks and Bush administration about how dumb they were. He asked when these assets were going up 40-50% every year, why didn't anyone catch that it is too good to be true.

So, prices in India are also too good to be true. I don't agree with Vulture that there will be a 50% drop. I think there will be a 70% drop over the next few years.


Jamshed said...

Vulture and HB have gone nuts!! why are you misleading the forum with all these post?

Anon 4:37

Are you working with Shulab Souchalya ?

Anonymous said...

@Vulture 10:24 PM

Thank you for the post. It helped understand the UNholy nexus between bankers, politicians (Central Bank - Reserve Bank of India), and brokers.

The best way to accelerate the crash of housing bubble is not to buy any financial products i.e. Housing Loans,Insurance etc from the Banks & Housing Finance companies. Most of the banks are hiding the losses by tweaking the rules under the aegis of the central bank . For banks if there is no revenue (no new loans) then they can not continue this charade for a long time.

Recently a few of the banks have introduced the home loan products with a teaser rate i.e. fixed rate for 1, 2 years. After this initial period the rates will reset to high.

Genuine home buyers please don’t fooled by these gimmicks and loose your hard earned money.

Anonymous said...

No More $19 Doughnuts; More Businesses To Fail
ANALYSIS 05 Oct 2009

Bankruptcy professionals have a grim view on the US corporate recovery , despite a recent rise in stocks and an uptick in business deals.

"I think it's going to be a sad holiday season," said Lynn Tilton, chief executive officer of Patriarch Partners, a private equity firm that specializes in distressed companies.

Consumers will be stingy with their spending, keeping malls and resorts empty, bankruptcy professionals said at the Reuters Restructuring Summit in New York this week. Even the wealthy will steer clear of the wild, brand-conscious spending that marked the last few years.
Miserly bank lending is exacerbating the problem. Until banks lend again to small-sized businesses or lend to companies with below-investment-grade ratings, unemployment will rise still more.

"At the risk of being cynical, which if you are in the restructuring business comes relatively easy, the banks are making money, but they aren't lending money," said Henry Miller, chairman and co-founder of investment bank Miller Buckfire.

In addition, there is some $117 billion in debt maturities due in 2011 , according to a study by Bain Corporate Renewal Group. Think that figure is high? Debt maturities spike to $165 billion in 2014.


The outlook is dim for a slew of industries, according to the restructuring executives.

Media, real estate and private equity-sponsored companies are most in need of drastic restructuring, said James Sprayregen, a bankruptcy attorney for Kirkland & Ellis. Other busy areas for restructuring will include commercial real estate and smaller auto-parts makers, he said.

"We are still headed for an avalanche of deals over the next 12 to 18 months that will keep the restructuring world quite busy," said Robert McMahon, a managing director for GE Capital, Restructuring Finance.

Retail, too, will suffer.

"How well is retail going to fare this year?" said Thane Carlston, managing director at Moelis. "I could make a case that Christmas may not come."

Anonymous said...

The next FINANCIAL crisis, much bigger than the one triggered by the sub-prime mortgage (residential), is already on the horizon. The Super-Rich after incurring the heavy losses have come to their senses and can SEE what lies ahead - " A Big Commercial Real Estate Bubble"

Too Rich to Worry? Not in This Downturn
by Paul Sullivan
Tuesday, October 6, 2009

One thing the group convened by Bessemer agreed on is that their clients were hesitant to buy commercial real estate. They fear that the value of it could collapse with greater ferocity than the housing market.

The logic behind this is that with everyone cutting back — companies laying off workers, consumers watching what they buy — there is less demand for office and retail space. If leases expire and are not renewed, building owners will have trouble making their loan payments. That, in turn, will affect the investors who bought the bonds secured by this debt.

Even those real estate owners who are doing well could be hurt. “A lot of this debt is short term and it needs to be refinanced, but there is no market for that,” Ms. Isdale said. Next year and 2011 are expected to be the worst, Ms. McCarthy said.

So while the super-rich bought properties on the cheap in previous real estate downturns, they now may be struggling with the financing on the ones they own and wary to add more, even at discount prices.

Venkateswaran K Iyer said...

Vulture, it is a pleasure to have you back here and posting regularly.

We all benefit by your analysis and keep wondering - what if your 50% price correction comes true?

Keeps us sane in the face of BB and the media hypes.

Venkat ND

Anonymous said...

Jamshed said...

AKA Sandaas Bhai!

Hey, everyone alive knows what shit is and how shit do not have to work at Sulabh Sauchalaya...Do you not know what shit is and how it smells?

So we all now what Sandaas Bhai is and can smell the foul smell of his provocations and misguidance. Even if Sandaas calls himself - Vashi Hunter, Jamshed or what have are still Sandaas.

Hey, even Shakespeare used to say - a sandaas by any other name is still sandaas..

Anonymous said...

People who are buying in this market are not impatient:
Impatient? I call it immature, knee jerk, lack of foresight, childish, etc.

Anonymous said...

Vashi Hunter Here
Looking at 2 to 3 BHK in sanpada and palm beach
Can arrange 47 lack white in 1 go ( No bank loan) but NO Black

Can pay 2% Commission to agents

Need all title clear flat,cidco tender plot built...already rejected Moraj Residency
No Ground floor NEED 2 parkings least 1
Sellers Dealers welcome..

Mail -

rajni sharma said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Voora Group said...

Such a nice post. Thanks for sharing...
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