Thursday, October 07, 2010

Mumbai property rises above slums

Article on FT.com

A real estate boom in Mumbai is fuelling the building of elite high-rise apartment blocks, such as the 117-storey World One.

Their high-priced exclusiveness as they tower over the city’s slums, which house two-thirds of its population, highlight the growing gap between haves and have-nots in what is already one of the world’s most unequal societies.

“With the new buildings, there is much more segregation than in the Bombay I grew up in [during the 70s],” says Suketu Mehta, the author of Maximum City, the novel about Mumbai whose title has become a synonym for India’s financial capital.

Mumbai’s property market, Asia’s third most expensive, has staged a dramatic recovery from the global financial crisis in line with the country’s economy – expected to grow 8.5 per cent in the current fiscal year.

But the difference between this and previous real estate booms is the size and increasingly elite nature of the new buildings.

With no hope in sight of an increase in mass housing for lower income earners, the new buildings will only serve to underline social inequality in Mumbai, known as India’s “City of Dreams” for its Bollywood movie industry and powerful tycoons.

“Most of the people I know in Bombay ‘high’ have no interaction with Bombay ‘low’, except that they look down upon them from a great height, like barons in medieval fortresses,” says Maximum City’s Mr Mehta.

58 comments:

shailesh said...

May be its time to pull like this one on housing.

Aurangabad drives into the global arena

AURANGABAD/PUNE: It was a deal that put Aurangabad a city in the backward region of Marathwada on the global map. The bulk order placed in April this year for over 100 Mercedes Benz cars by the Aurangabad group' comprising doctors, builders, industrialists and professionals is all set to be fulfilled on October 14.

It all started on a fine February morning this year, when, while working out in a gym, Sachin Nagori, an Aurangabad-based builder and developer, shared his childhood dream of owning a Mercedes with two of his friends. Sachin suggested that all his friends should also join in.

"We laughed it off as we were not sure of even 11 people joining the bandwagon. But, Sachin continued to pursue the idea wherever and whenever he got an opportunity," said Akshay Rathi, director of the Kaigaon Paper Mill, and Balkrishna Bhakre, director, Disha Group, a construction company.

Soon, entrepreneurs, manufacturers, developers, traders and professionals, including lawyers and doctors, joined in and saw it as an opportunity to promote Aurangabad and bring it to the world's notice.

Nagori said, "It was a collective effort."

Bachera Indian said...

Well it’s already there only difference is that its controlled by few mafias/businessmen’s and they have truck load of money to give it to the builders so the price don’t fall which is not the case with the product like mercs. I am sure they would have got hefty 25% discount

In India everything is governed at the mercy of the politicians so real estate also. I am just wondering why this deal came to media this will be a bad precedents for the car agency who will out of business soon if this is followed across India.

Meghana said...

Deepak Parekh of HDFC warns of a real estate bubble ... though he is gracious to the builder lobby when he talks of a hilarious 10% correction!

http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/mktsfinereal-estate-istrouble-deepak-parekh_489502-1.html

Mkts are fine but real estate is in trouble: Deepak Parekh

Q: Let’s talk about real estate; you said that you don’t see a bubble in the stock market today. On the real estate market, any pockets which are beginning to concern you?
A: What is happening on the prices of real estate, I see there is a huge glut of real estate, particularly in the commercial IT and retail space. I see rents coming down sharply in number of cities like Hyderabad, Chennai, Bangalore, Pune and even parts of Mumbai. I know large number of buildings that are ready, state of the art buildings for IT for immediate occupation, but there are no takers, similarly, in parts of Gurgaon, Noida also.
So, I think there is surplus, there is a glut of commercial real estate, IT real estate. It will take one to one-and-a-half years to absorb that kind of surplus. There is fair amount of work in progress also in the commercial sector. So, I doubt whether real estate prices for commercial and offices and retail will go up in near future. The only way it can go is down because of the surplus space available.
Q: Do you see prices of real estate coming under pressure in some parts of the country?
A: I am not worried on the residential side of the extra supply. But I don’t think prices can be maintained at the present level. If the supply increases significantly, developers will have to reduce prices marginally 5-10%, not higher than that, if they want to sell the projects. I see some softening of prices even in real estate, the stocks are there and if a developer is desperate to sell, if he reduces the price, he can get rid of his stock.

DhImAn said...

In response to Meghana:

So if RE crashes, people take out fewer loans, and the loans are of smaller principal values, meaning that it hurts HDFC.

You expect Deepak Parekh to paint a pessimistic picture? If he does, he could well trigger a self-fulfilling prophecy, and he knows that.

Thus, his only course of action is to be cautiously optimistic. If you extrapolate, i.e., read between the lines, you'll see that he's saying that we're hosed.

Anonymous said...

So there is massive inequality in a Capitalist society like India, big deal. In other Capitalist countries the poor are already kept far away from the rich, there is no possiblity of interaction.
The slum dwellers are law-breakers who are occupying property on someone else's land, in most countries the slum dwellers would have been moved permanently.

Anonymous said...

Yeah but in India the media potrays them as the oppressed and exploited masses who are being done an injustice.Notice the photos of the people's belongings strewn on the road, kids crying, etc.

Anonymous said...

The two anons above: are you forgetting that they are also human beings? Or, has the extensive study of Keynesian principles f***ed up your brains so much that you think of them as cattle that needs to be driven out from illegaly occupied land.

Most people came to slums from villages decades ago because they were driven out from their villages due to a combination of economic and political circumstances. A lot of the people didn't come, you call their decendents the "naxalite problem" today.

Fundamentally, there is no difference between you and these so called illegal people in the slums. Both are made of skins and bones. Though, in your case, I think the heart is missing.

Build yor great India, live in your 1200 sq. ft. 3BHK after paying a crore from your black money, and keep snickering at the poor. And yeah, keep blaming the politicians for the sick mindset you inherited from God knows whom.

DhImAn said...

So there is massive inequality in a Capitalist society like India, big deal.

Here is the first line of the preamble of the Indian constitution - "We, the people of India, having solemnly resolved to constitute India into a soverign SOCIALIST secular democratic republic..."

What was that about India being capitalist again?

Anonymous said...

Guys , i am still alive waiting for Mumbai RE to crash, wake me up when your that dreams comes true .. lol..

DhImAn said...

... the poor are already kept far away from the rich, there is no possiblity of interaction ... slum dwellers are law-breakers ...

Yeah. I know, it is a crime to be poor. The poor are filthy, smelly and disgusting, and they should be kept away from those who make society beautiful and sweet.

Yuck! Poor people! They make the rich feel unclean and want to bathe, but the rich can't get the smell out their nostrils.

Someone should do something about all the poor trash everywhere. If only they cleaned up Dharavi and got rid of all the stink, there could be a great golf course there, and perhaps even a race track, for the refined, leisurely pursuits of those who matter most to society, like those Gods walking the earth - Mukesh Ambani and Ratan Tata.

Desi Batman said...

Someone should do something about all the poor trash everywhere. If only they cleaned up Dharavi and got rid of all the stink, there could be a great golf course there, and perhaps even a race track, for the refined, leisurely pursuits of those who matter most to society, like those Gods walking the earth - Mukesh Ambani and Ratan Tata.

AMEN !!

Anonymous said...

Desi Batman,

I don't think you got the sarcasm in DhlmAn's post. Or should I assume that your "Amen" is also a sarcastic response?

Anonymous said...

Why dont they eat cake if they dont have bread?

Anonymous said...

The words "socialist" and "secular" were inserted into the preamble of the constitution by Indra Gandhi during (or just before) the emergency declaration, as a constitutional amendment. They are not part of the original constitution

samix said...

Nonetheless, Margret Thacher said that "Socialism is a great idea, unless you run out of someone else's money"

haha

Desi Batman said...

don't think you got the sarcasm in DhlmAn's post. Or should I assume that your "Amen" is also a sarcastic response?

you are right on being sarcastic. In fact I am poor too in terms of RE prices. ;-)

samix said...

batman, forget poverty line with respect to RE price I am below existence line!

I think we should edit our school text books and remove shelter as a basic human right.

"Previously humans thought that food, clothing, shelter were basic human rights, this in until Indian Politicians and their touts figured out that RE can be such a great business, Thanks to their business sense it dawned upon humanity that only food and clothing are supposed to be basic human rights, shelter is a privilege, considering the 8% growth that India is undergoing, it is hoped that some day a political luminary will be able to free humanity from the basic rights of food and clothing too, so that we can eliminate poverty by eliminating the poor and so we shall be know as a Secular, Progressive, Socialist Democracy"

Desi Batman said...

Rich don't need poor people except for cleaning their house, cleaning their cars, cooking for them, driving for them, collect their garbage, ironing their clothes, bringing groceries for them, taking care of their children, washing their clothes, running errands for them. For rich in business list even goes more.

Number of poors are increasing and number of rich are decreasing. uhh, now rich should have separate quota for education, jobs, every benefit... after all they are in minority!

Laaloo Prasad yadav said...

Hi Desi Batman,
Out of frustration and desperation, u lost your mind!!!

Hope to see u normal soon,
Amen.

Anonymous said...

i just passed by Amitabh Bacchan's bungalow at JVPD and saw handful of migrants with kids living on the footpath opposite his house. If the road opposite Big B's house can develop into a slum in 2010 what about others

Desi Batman said...

Laaloo Prasad yadav said...
Hi Desi Batman,
Out of frustration and desperation, u lost your mind!!!

Hope to see u normal soon,
Amen.


Laalooji... ya I am poor, what do you expect of poor? ;-)

Thambi said...

@Laaloo Prasad yadav anne,

your Islamic ideology stinks just like your religious practices like bigamy.

What DesiBatman quoted makes lot od sense

Thambi

samix said...

Dear Thambi, Everyone has a right to hold an opinion but I think that your attack on Islamic Ideology and Practices in unfounded and uncalled for, I don't even know why you have raised this topic here.

Have you ever read a page of the Quran in your life that you are passing such a adverse judgment, this only reflects your hatred that has been founded on no solid ground.

On the contrary, I invite you to do a thorough assessment of the Islamic religion by going to its true sources and then make up your mind, for justice demands so.

Similarly It would be grossly unfair of me to be critical of the Hindu faith, culture and practices unless I have read, understood and researched it.

Cool Head said...

I for now feel that as long as the Fed keeps its loose monetary policy (they are already talking about Quantitative Easing II) the local RE prices will not fall, nor will the Sensex. It is so easy for the big boys to borrow at 0% interest in dollars or yen and pump it into the local RE and stock market. The RBI only talks about limiting capital inflows but does nothing. IMHO this bubble cannot burst until the carry trade (borrow in dollars at 0% and lend at 12% to builders, or buy their inflated properties for flipping) stops. Notice that this has nothing to do with the ordinary market mechanisms of affordability, prices driven by supply and demand, etc. The poor fellow who wants to buy a house is at the mercy of the global financial banksters who decide the price of our assets!

samix said...

Cool head, I cannot agree more with what you say, Also as American and European markets start falling like a pack of dominoes, All the money will flood Indian/Chinese and other Asian markets.

Its a feedback loop, As US does a QEII, all other economies around the world will devalue their currencies, as they say, Its a race to the bottom. RE will shoot up more with wages constant or relatively reduced.

The only way in which I see the RE prices popping are if the American dollar breaks completely and becomes worthless paper, for then there will be no scale to measure the currency value of anything, and things will be in a state of flux for quite some time.

samix said...

By the way cool head, your weapon against the banksters.. Gold, a resounding NO to their colorful funny money....

vik: It seems I and Dhiman are overtaking your RE blog and converting it into a gold blog!

shailesh said...

Unsold homes pile up

The festive season is around the corner, but it could spell bleak times for India\'s realty sector, as unsold inventory piles up. With the prices of residential units exorbitantly high especially in Delhi and Mumbai and a deluge of residential project launches quarter after quarter, it’s a clear demand-supply mismatch.

According to the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors (RICS), around 250 million sq ft of residential inventory remains unsold across major markets in the country. Most of the upcoming projects are located in Navi Mumbai and Thane near Mumbai, or in Noida and Gurgaon near Delhi, where unsold home inventory levels are at all-time highs. As reported by The Indian Express, Kharghar in Navi Mumbai itself has 131 new residential projects, followed by 66 projects in Kamothe, 41 in New Panvel, 31 in Nerul and 21 in Kalamboli.

On an average, while 70,000 units were launched in major cities every quarter this year, only 55,000 residential units were launched per quarter last year and in 2007-08, the residential supply was almost half of what is available now. “Currently, prices in the NCR and micro-markets of Mumbai have reached and in some cases even exceeded their 2007 peaks, leading to over-supply.With considerably large amounts of supply entering the market at the same time at higher price bands, the absorption levels have fallen drastically. Such a trend could spell even bigger trouble for the NCR region, specifically areas like Gurgaon where developers de-risk projects through down-selling to a few investors causing prices to escalate,” says Sachin Sandhir, MD, RICS India.

Anonymous said...

A study in systems stability...something similar to a house of cards. The realtors cannot lower their inventory by doing a discounted sale as that would trigger a run on prices...prices would decline to 50% below in no time flat.

Also they cannot keep hiking the prices as people already cannot buy houses at this level...It's interesting. I would like to see what the innovative RE folks dream up next.

Xmumbaiker said...

Is Mumbai next?

Property market in Shanghai has started to crumble. Mumbai is even more expensive.

Here is the article...

A Reality Check For Shanghai Real Estate
Property sales are cooling off. That could rock China's already shaky banks -- and even dent the economy

Six months ago, Shanghai's property market was the hottest on the planet. The story was compelling: the most dynamic city in the most dynamic economy, with affluent Chinese from both the mainland and abroad eager to pour their capital into the latest deal. Even foreigners were getting into the act: Morgan Stanley (MWD ) was part of a $90 million real estate fund for Shanghai, and individual Americans were plunking down their bucks for Shanghai flats and houses.


...

How serious could things get? Very serious, according to Credit Suisse First Boston's (CSR ) Dong Tao, chief economist for Asia ex-Japan in Hong Kong. He reckons mortgages account for 40% to 50% of all bank lending in Shanghai and that Shanghai property lending accounts for a fifth of all mortgages countrywide. A Shanghai crash could slam China's already shaky banks. Property generated about one-quarter of Shanghai's 14.3% growth in gross domestic product last year. Moreover, while Shanghai accounts for just 5.4% of China's GDP, a crash could have a ripple effect. "It affects demand for materials and electronics, insurance and mortgages. It's the source of fiscal revenues and consumer confidence," Dong says. "If we see a major dip in Shanghai it will be a substantial risk to the national economy and the global commodity market."

Within the city itself, the drought of property sales has put a damper on what might be called the hustle economy. Some 4,000 small property agencies have closed their doors in the past three months. Speculators who bought flats by the half-dozen with the notion of flipping them have been left holding the keys -- stuck with empty properties and big debts to the banks.

...

Yet in the short term, property developers have had to pull out all stops to entice buyers. In the past the flats that developers sold were empty cement shells; the buyer was expected to install his own wall paneling, flooring, and appliances. Now developers are offering finished flats equipped with kitchen and bathroom appliances, air-conditioning, and even suites of furniture. "It's fiercely competitive," says Timothy Addison, managing director of corporate finance and development at Hong Kong developer Shui On Land Ltd. Addison will give you a deal on an apartment at his Rainbow City Apartment complex: $1,840 per square meter, down from $2,215 in March.

"If prices fall more than 30%, it will point to negative equity" for mortgage holders, says Kenneth Tse, property analyst for Morgan Stanley. "That's not something the government wants to see."

Article link: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_41/b3954072.htm

Anonymous said...

Is Mumbai next?

Property market in Shanghai has started to crumble. Mumbai is even more expensive.

Here is the article...

A Reality Check For Shanghai Real Estate
Property sales are cooling off. That could rock China's already shaky banks -- and even dent the economy

Six months ago, Shanghai's property market was the hottest on the planet. The story was compelling: the most dynamic city in the most dynamic economy, with affluent Chinese from both the mainland and abroad eager to pour their capital into the latest deal. Even foreigners were getting into the act: Morgan Stanley (MWD ) was part of a $90 million real estate fund for Shanghai, and individual Americans were plunking down their bucks for Shanghai flats and houses.

The whole world, it seemed, wanted in on the game. Who cared if speculators were buying and selling apartments within days? Prices had been clocking 30% annual increases from 2002 on.

Today, says local real estate agent Anthony Ip, "the situation has reversed completely." Ip recalls how developers once would hang up on him if he dared to question the price of a new property. Now desperate developers are offering perks like free parking spots, country club memberships, and even free autos as incentives. Not only have prices of some luxury apartments dropped by as much as 30%, but sales volume is off by 70%, say Ip and other agents.

Shanghai is the latest victim of the government's effort to cool a rocketing economy. Last year, Beijing made it much harder for consumers to borrow to buy cars: The result was a sharp downturn in the auto market. Now it's real estate's turn. Ever since Shanghai's government slapped a series of taxes and other levies on real estate transactions in June in an effort to rein in speculation, prices have been sliding.


Yet in the short term, property developers have had to pull out all stops to entice buyers. In the past the flats that developers sold were empty cement shells; the buyer was expected to install his own wall paneling, flooring, and appliances. Now developers are offering finished flats equipped with kitchen and bathroom appliances, air-conditioning, and even suites of furniture. "It's fiercely competitive," says Timothy Addison, managing director of corporate finance and development at Hong Kong developer Shui On Land Ltd. Addison will give you a deal on an apartment at his Rainbow City Apartment complex: $1,840 per square meter, down from $2,215 in March.


Article link: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_41/b3954072.htm

Anonymous said...

Is Mumbai next?

Property market in Shanghai has started to crumble. Mumbai is even more expensive.

Here is the article...

A Reality Check For Shanghai Real Estate
Property sales are cooling off. That could rock China's already shaky banks -- and even dent the economy

Six months ago, Shanghai's property market was the hottest on the planet. The story was compelling: the most dynamic city in the most dynamic economy, with affluent Chinese from both the mainland and abroad eager to pour their capital into the latest deal. Even foreigners were getting into the act: Morgan Stanley (MWD ) was part of a $90 million real estate fund for Shanghai, and individual Americans were plunking down their bucks for Shanghai flats and houses.

The whole world, it seemed, wanted in on the game. Who cared if speculators were buying and selling apartments within days? Prices had been clocking 30% annual increases from 2002 on.

Today, says local real estate agent Anthony Ip, "the situation has reversed completely." Ip recalls how developers once would hang up on him if he dared to question the price of a new property. Now desperate developers are offering perks like free parking spots, country club memberships, and even free autos as incentives. Not only have prices of some luxury apartments dropped by as much as 30%, but sales volume is off by 70%, say Ip and other agents.

Shanghai is the latest victim of the government's effort to cool a rocketing economy. Last year, Beijing made it much harder for consumers to borrow to buy cars: The result was a sharp downturn in the auto market. Now it's real estate's turn. Ever since Shanghai's government slapped a series of taxes and other levies on real estate transactions in June in an effort to rein in speculation, prices have been sliding.


Yet in the short term, property developers have had to pull out all stops to entice buyers. In the past the flats that developers sold were empty cement shells; the buyer was expected to install his own wall paneling, flooring, and appliances. Now developers are offering finished flats equipped with kitchen and bathroom appliances, air-conditioning, and even suites of furniture. "It's fiercely competitive," says Timothy Addison, managing director of corporate finance and development at Hong Kong developer Shui On Land Ltd. Addison will give you a deal on an apartment at his Rainbow City Apartment complex: $1,840 per square meter, down from $2,215 in March.


Article link: http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_41/b3954072.htm

Bachera Indian said...

This all analysis “Paralysis” I am hearing from a last decade, and believe me nothing will happen as such due to the wasted interest of the govt and underworld money at least in India. From the day when it started in US, Dubai or now as above Shanghai, India will remain the hot real estate sector for time to come no matter what happens to the world. Even when tsunami comes, Builders will sell at 50 lakh to 5 crores and believe me it will sell.

Just talked to my cousin who is not even ssc passed, he booked one commercial property ay 10000 psf in outskirt of pune and within a two weeks now its 14000 psf. I am looking like a fool and big jackass as I told him it’s a 100% negative return when he told me to join that.

samix said...

I am looking like a fool and big jackass as I told him it’s a 100% negative return when he told me to join that.

@bechara Indian, you are not alone my friend, we are all in the same boat, whenever we say that RE is overvalued and that the prices may crash if the builders,politicians pull the plug, we are scorned at, yelled and jeered at!

As some smart poster called 'Another' once said "Time will prove all things"

samix said...

@Vik: If you do not mind can you please add http://fofoa.blogspot.com to your list of blog entries where you have added Dr. Roubini's blog etc

DhImAn said...

Bachera Indian:

There is an old saying - "Markets can be irrational for longer than you can be solvent."

There is another old adage - "When you hear the shoeshine boy give you investing advice, it is time to get out."

There's that saying - "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread."

Then there's also that saying, "Good things come to those who wait."

Also, I'm sure you were told as a kid - "Just because every one does a particular thing it doesn't make it the right thing to do."

So, if - and only if

- you will make a huge loss by not buying into real estate;

- and if you don't care about just who is jumping in right now;

- and if you don't fear to buy because you have lots of cash;

- and if you absolutely can't wait;

- and if you are totally convinced that RE is the only thing to put your money into now

then what's stopping you? Get a Rs. 20,000/sq.ft. flat in Loni Kalbhor for all anyone cares.

I mean finally, it is your money, and who cares what a bunch of squawking anonymously posting bloggers think.

But if you are taking a risk - such as borrowing because you don't have cash on hand to cover the entire price of the flat - then heed the advice of even fools - who tell you that the risk is not worth taking.

Or ignore the advice - but then be man enough to take the decision and be proud of it, even if it ruins you financially.

IOW, if you want to not listen to logic and common sense, then at least do it with courage. Tell us that we are a bunch of idiots, buy a flat, watch it appreciate, and laugh all the way to the bank.

But if you are going to disagree with all the rational analysis that is out there, including some that is posted on these fora because you are convinced that it is wrong - then put your money where your mouth is and go buy.

Honestly, if it is "Analysis Paralysis", it seems that we are doing the analysis, and you are the one who is paralyzed.

So if you are convinces this analysis is wrong, then shed off your paralysis and go buy.

Bachera Indian said...

Looks like you have taken very seriously. See at some times, this analysis don’t work at all, just was the case when oil reached to $ 150 bbl. No body had a rational explanation infact GS was saying that $ 200 is in near term. But you can avoid energy cost by cutting down cost, but housing is a basic need and that cant be avoided for longer term. If its bubble or whatever one has to go and put money no matter afterward one has to suffer “Hair Cut”

Same is the case now, there is lot of money coming from god knows where, which is fuelling the market. Just other day I heard that bhindi bazaar will be revamped, do you have any idea how much slum resident in that area will be getting. I know one more person he got cull 1 crore for 300 sq.ft of room in chawl (not building) just because that chawl was coming on the way to big development of 300 apt with booking rate of 15000 psf. So that’s why I said this Analyses which is Paralysis some time

Anonymous said...

But you can avoid energy cost by cutting down cost, but housing is a basic need and that cant be avoided for longer term.

Are you saying that if you don't buy, you cannot put a roof over your head? I rent a flat in Bangalore that costs 1 crore. Frankly, I wouldn't touch this piece of crap for 70 lakhs with a flagpole. Also, I have a crore sitting in a bank. If I put this crore in an FD (I won't do that, I know it is stupid), I can make 8 lakhs a year. If I pay 30% taxes on that, I make about 47k a month. My rent is a cool 25k a month, and my friends say that I am paying more. With the remaining 22k a month, I am buying about 10 grams of gold, taking Dhlman's advice. I the crash happens, I will buy. If it does not happen, I plan to visit my dentist to get golden crowns and then, watch a Bond movie called Goldfinger.

Rustomji

Desi Batman said...

Many Indians like Rustomji have lots of cash. Some choose to buy RE where as some don't.

I know so many people they are sitting on tons of cash. Where do they earn money - no idea. All I can reason out is more foriegn investment money is in market. I used to earn Rs.3000 per month 12 years ago, today same position same level earns atleast Rs 50,000 per month. that is 16 times (1600% increase) - where do these come from? Indian internal economy? Bullshit.

Now, what is so suprising when RE and other commodities prices rise? Seen gold prices increased? Where do people get money to buy these high priced metal? Same place where they get money to buy RE.

Seen people buying cars in Mumbai and rest of India? Seen expensive mobile phones, tech gadgets? Where do money comes from?

Until from whatever source of money is inflowing, no price of RE, Gold or any other thing will decrease.

Anonymous said...

Why is India still so damn anti-capitalist. Everyone hates these builders/investors...why? These builders/investors may lose all their investments if the market crashes. If you really want prices of real estate to come down, then mumbai needs more capitalist, not less, more builders and investors, not less.

If a small builder can get investors, he can find properties to build more buildings and increase supply in the market. I hate the DAMN SOCIALIST DESI mindset where everyone has rights and no one has responsiblity. Where everyone wants Government to do something rather than let market forces take care of things.

Anonymous said...

Desi Batman,

I have legal money. I worked as a Gigolo in the Netherlands for 20 years offering my rear end for Guilders first and then Euro. I came back to India sensing that my profession will be legalized here soon, given that 100% of the Indian population is already offering its rear end to the Babus and Netas (you included). What a Goddamn set of Wussies you are, I thought I was giving you some tips on investing, you started biting my butt instead. Go f*** a duck.

Rustomji

Desi Batman said...

Rustomji A$$-hole:

On my comment what exactly was offensive to you?

Respond don't react.

I have legal money. I worked as a Gigolo in the Netherlands for 20 years offering my rear end for Guilders first and then Euro.

Good for you. Glad to know your profession.


I came back to India sensing that my profession will be legalized here soon, given that 100% of the Indian population is already offering its rear end to the Babus and Netas (you included).

Don't assume. I am not Neta or Babu. Nor do I want your Gigolo services.


What a Goddamn set of Wussies you are, I thought I was giving you some tips on investing, you started biting my butt instead. Go f*** a duck.

No Thanks, your tips offering your front and rear weren't useful. Try something that makes better sense.


Ya, keep your filthy comments cumming ...oops comming. ;-)

Desi Batman said...

Why is India still so damn anti-capitalist. Everyone hates these builders/investors...why? These builders/investors may lose all their investments if the market crashes. If you really want prices of real estate to come down, then mumbai needs more capitalist, not less, more builders and investors, not less.

I Agree. We need more capitalist, more entrepreneurs, more innovation, more products.
Unfortunately currently what we have are more traders, market manipulators.


If a small builder can get investors, he can find properties to build more buildings and increase supply in the market. I hate the DAMN SOCIALIST DESI mindset where everyone has rights and no one has responsiblity. Where everyone wants Government to do something rather than let market forces take care of things.

Tried starting a business in India? Try it and you will know that market forces are controlled by corrupt Govt and their ambigous policies. Play by rules? you will soon know that rules of the game are changed by govt directly or indirectly.

Anonymous said...

Desibatman, you are wrong. The rules and laws for fair business already exists on the books, the lack is in enforcement. India is a nation of 'men' and not a nation of 'laws'. Once law becomes more imporatant than any man, it would be a lot easier to do business in India. btw, we have done a lot of businesses over many generations in India and are quite aware of the corruption. Now we do a lot of business in usa and are quite pleased with rapid enforcement of laws.

I just hate people coming here and blaming builders/investors for current market situation.

samix said...

Anon, show me one country in the world that is truly capitalist, just one.

Just because the west keeps shouting that they are capitalistic does not mean that they are capitalists.

1) You think that bailing out the too big to fail banks was a capitalist step taken by America ?

2) You think bailing out Greece and thus the euro is capitalist ?

3) You think WTO and other such trade commissions are capitalists ?

4) You think that fiat paper money is capitalist ?

5) You think that cartels that control prices are capitalists ?

6) You think that a debt based money system is capitalist ?

7) You think designating a legal tender is capitalist ?

Its all propaganda my friend, every single so called civilized country in the world is neither capitalistic nor socialist nor communist, lets face it they are all Fascists, A system where Corporates and Governments unite in the pursuit of profit, don't be mislead.

Desi Batman said...

Anon above.

I agree with you and you say I am wrong. What'z up buddy- didn't have good night sleep?

I just hate people coming here and blaming builders/investors for current market situation.

Then who is to be blamed for manipulated, corruption driven (rather encouraged) real estate prices? No, I am not asking for freebie or govt subsidized prices. What I am asking why is govnt manipulating market for benefits for babu and netas and businessmen but not for common person?

Anonymous said...

Blog comments are more interest than the blog itself !

Anonymous said...

Samix, the answer to all your question is simple: The West will do whatever it takes to keep the high quality of material life. In India, babus, intellectuals, academics will discuss forever the benefits/morality/ethics etc. of taking steps to ensure the quality of life for Indians. Somehow many Indians don't think other Indians DESERVE a good quality of material life.

Desi Batman: Because the average Indian cares little about political process and has even less interest in voting. So the Government is lining their own pockets while the populace cares little. You can say, this is how it is in India...or this is how desis are etc. etc. I will tell you this, when desis first come to USA, they think the same way. But after decades of living in USA, a lot of desis voulnteer their time and money for the betterment of the community they live in including active participation in the political process.

my 2 cents from the podium.

Desi Batman said...

I feel it is question of 'WHEN' rather than 'IF' of bubble pop.

Fears grow of a bubble in Brazil, China and India

Anonymous said...

Vik,

I think your new post should be called "Jayen to Jayen Kahan" after the famous Hindi movie song of the yesteryears. This is more relevant for investors today, because:
1) Money is Fiat and is being inflated out of value at a rapid pace.
2) Gold is overinflated and overvalued, a correction is imminent.
3) Real estate in India is in a bubble and even if I buy a property, I don't know if I really hold the title because someone may have sold the property to three buyers.
4) The BSE is again at a peak and investing in stocks does not make sense.
5) FD's are already making a negative return after inflation. My negative return is funding the real estate cartel in India.

US and Europe are going through financial crisis, India is sold to the politicians and bureaucrats (look at what happened in Karnataka yesterday).

There isn't one country or monetary instrument that can be trusted today. Jayen to Jayen Kahan!

Kumar

DhImAn said...

2) Gold is overinflated and overvalued, a correction is imminent.

What are your reasons for this assessment?

Bachera Indian said...

Well one point is true that FD is inflating RE, but the point is where to park the money, if RE crash then stock mkt will crash so that is not safe option, corporates you cant trust them, so hardly any choice. gold may be but that also has downside risk?

To answer Rustomjee, many people kept money bank and payed rent, but that type of category has always increased and left behind over the years. So the point is when they will come? As empirical evidence suggest that retail investors get slaughter by way of buying in peak and selling at bottom! I dont know what will be the fate this time in RE

Bachera Indian said...

Real estate market a definitive asset class to invest
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/quickiearticleshow/6718021.cms


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/quickiearticleshow/6718154.cms

also you have this cheap copy paste articles which influence the mind of common man/investor

samix said...

Just some gold goodies

-Gold is a currency with no liabilities attached.
-Gold is competition to paper currency.
-Gold is not a commodity.
-Gold is a barometer of fear.
-Gold is a barometer of confidence in Government.
-Gold is insurance.
-Insurance is not something to trade.
-Gold is money when money fails.
-Hyperinflation is a currency event, not an economic event.
-Hyperinflation is a currency event described as a loss of confidence in the currency.
-Gold in your hand eliminates counter-party risk.
-Gold is the high ground when the global tsunami hits.
-Gold removes financial agents between you and your assets.
-- Jim Sinclare

" Very few people see the fragility of wealth under the regime of irredeemable currency. Those who can are not tempted by the spectacular profit opportunities in stock, bond, and real estate speculation. They know full well that yielding to the temptation would be tantamount to sitting in a crowded auditorium just before the fire alarm was ready to sound. Their chance to reach the fire exit alive would be practically nil."
- Antal Fekete

"Gold hoarding provides an escape route for the individual from the harsh
consequences of predatory monetary and credit policies of banks as they plunge
society into debt slavery. For those who fail to use the only prophylactic, gold,
debt slavery is all but inevitable."
- Antal E Fekete

“Wherever you earn or spend money, the central bank is actively working to devalue your money, either by holding real rates below zero, or actively depressing its own currency – or both."
- Someone

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